Just starting need advice

[ThatPirateGuy]

I have a 2500 list planned but I am concerned that I may have made it too flimsily

EIR
Consul mounted
tribune mounted
tribune

12 auxiliary infantry closed formation with throwing spears, drilled
12 auxiliary infantry closed formation with throwing spears, drilled
12 legionaries
12 legionaries
12 legionaries
12 legionaries
12 veteran legionaries
6 elite cavalry with javelins
6 Auxiliary cavalry with javelins
13 drilled open order archers
9 slingers

Are my units too small? Anything glaringly bad? I am looking merely to create an army that can use the legion rule to good effect.

[FleetfootMike]

Generally, yes, those are a bit on the small side.

9's a good number for cavalry - means you have to lose 3 for a 25% test
As far as legionaries and auxillae go, 18, 21 or 24 in three ranks are the way most folks seem to go.

(I'm assuming that's rulebook 2500 pts EIR, not AoA2 - it is worth picking up the latter as the EIR list in there is less generic and more fun - also you'll want more like 3500 pts for the equivalent number of figures in an AoA2 list)

[argh]

Hi 'pirate guy'

Okay here are my 'tips'

Only take a general (roman morale is pretty good)
Okay possibly a sub commander for tha cav?

Legions ARE great troops, but you need bigger units.
After playing lots of EIR based games, my units are organised in 16's deployed in two ranks.
This maximises pilum shots before combat and allows enough points to deploy 4-5 units to use the legion rule efficiently.
Don't forget your minimum unit size is 10, and whilst not too much of a problem to drop below this number, your opponant will get 50% victory points off you!

I'd use auxilia as open order troops, maybe in 15's.
Also consider making your cav a single unit of 10-12.
Bolt throwers are very good, consider a battery of two?

Are you an ex fantasy player by any chance?

Hope that helps
Tim

[argh]

Mike,
this is a CoE thread????

[FleetfootMike]

Oops! *sheepish grin* I blame nowhere near enough tea at that point in the morning.

Having *said* that, and having played CoE a couple of times, the sensible unit sizes seem to be about the same as *cough* WAB

(Note to self: stop digging. And stop posting before breakfast!)

[argh]

Too early for everyone Mike

The big difference to WAB, is the 3rd rank, with the 'legion support' rule, the 3rd rank is not necessary.

So in WAB, agreed 3X6 (I have tried 3X5 too), however in CoE, 2X8

Glad we cleared that up,I can just see 'pirates' face when he opens this tonight!
Hope he appretiates our combined wisdom

[FleetfootMike]

*grin* It's a rule I'd be tempted to steal, were it not for the points implications, simply because it's much less hassle getting legions on movement trays two deep!

[ThatPirateGuy]

I do appreciate the combined wisdom.

I am going to hold off on the scorpions until after I get all the stuff I have already bought painted. So for now I am thinking.

Legate mounted 10
mounted tribune 65
15 Drilled open order auxiliaries with throwing spears 5x3
15 Drilled open order auxiliaries with throwing spears(I like being able to charge and get both ranks in. Warlord seems to have them throwing the spears as well.) 5x3

16 legionaries 8x2
16 legionaries 8x2
16 veteran legionaries 8x2 (not sure whether I will use the praetorians or the vet models I have)

10 Elite Calvary with javelins(I have 10 lovely praetorian calvary from warlord on their way)
12 Auxiliary Calvary with javelins(exact number on its way from the UK and warlord)

14 drilled open formation archers (I want to try out the support archers rule and I have 20 coming in.)

I am looking forward to no having to worry about a magic phase.

[staffordgames]

I would drop the tribune, pay for a consul, drop one unit of cavalry, drop the drilled for open order troops and get another unit of legionaries and some skirmishers.

I know you are trying to use the figures you have got but that will often give you an unbalanced army.

Roland

[ThatPirateGuy]

It just so happens I do have more legionaries already in the house.

So this might work out
Consul mounted

15 auxiliary open order infantry with throwing spears 5x3
15 auxiliary open order infantry with throwing spears 5x3

16 legionaries 8x2
16 legionaries 8x2
16 legionaries 8x2
16 veteran legionaries 8x2
10 elite Calvary
12 open order archers
8 slingers

[argh]

Roland is also a man of wisdom!

Yup, I'd go with the last version above.
However just because it performs well shouldn't stop you using figures you like.
It's nice to win the odd game, but having your army how YOU like it also counts

warm feelings all round guys.... group hug

[staffordgames]

Have a look at the untrained legionaries, four units of thirty would be nasty!

Roland

[MarsUltor]

Hi, guys,

You all ("y'all" as we say in the South) saved me a good deal of time with this list the night before a game, since I chose to paint my other army instead of agonizing over an EIR army list. I thought you might want some feedback on how it played - it played great and defeated the opposing Spartan army, though the hoplites took some whitling down.

I made the following changes:
I took out the slingers and archers and one elite cav model, as I (sadly) rarely find that they earn their points, which can be better spent on: (1) making all auxiliaries drilled, and (2) giving all legionaires heavy armor, which saved quite a number of lives against his skirmishers and in HTH.

I also had my doubts that 4 legionaire units could use the Legion rule tactical withdrawal while being surrounded on the flanks by peltasts and thracians, so I went for the simplex acies, the single battle line. The veterans and one legionare unit against three 24-man hoplite units (one Spartan with their king) in the center; they denied the center and held back long enough for the auxiliaries and other legionaires on the flank to crush the peltasts/thracians, then turn in on the naked sides of the hoplites. Whereupon my center units coordinated a charge. Even with disrupting 2 out of 3 phalanxes, it took some time to grind down those hoplites, but Expert Swordsmen really helps cut through their armor, and the veterans did suffer a reatreat and disrupted (only Steady saved them from breaking). The elite (praetorian) cav also worked well, defeating the Greek cav and then turning around to get a rear charge on the Spartan king's unit. Most of the battle was textbook.

Definitely a list worth keeping.