Warband Rule 1: surge/charge & skirmishers

[recceboss]

HBRB p113Warband Rule 1: various questions

1. This rule says that when surging forward ‘they will push through friendly skirmishers’; How does this work in practice?
• Must the warband’s movement take it completely ‘through’ the skirmishers?
a. If it doesn’t are they stuck behind the skirmishers? or
b. Are the skirmishers simply moved aside by enough movement to allow the Warband ‘steamroller’ to pass then moved back within 2” during their movement?

2. If a skirmish screen in front of the warband completely covers the front of the warband and the skirmishers are all just within the 2”distance allowed between them, then it seems that the warband cannot declare a charge [or surge] through the skirmishers because they don’t have LoS through the skirmishers [skirmishers block LoS p75] – correct? Or is this contradicting Q1?

3. Skirmishers rule also state that you can charge [& shoot] through skirmishers if there’s a gap of more than 2” between them. So we’re back to question 1 posed above – what happens to the skirmishers to allow the warband through if it declares a charge or charges because of warband rule 1?

Apologies if the questions have been answered elsewhere but when I used the search function it gave over 2000 responses! These issues have come up a couple of times now & I’d like to move forward using the correct answers [especially as I may make the GT in Feb – don’t want to upset anyone by trying to do something ‘wrong’!!!]

Cheers
Dave

[Naseby]

You can see through [but not shoot through] a skirmish screen so the warband can see their enemies. The warband goes through the skirmishers and they are placed behind the warband.

[stevelampon]

Some of your questions are covered a few threads below this one:-

Warbands, skirmishers and LoS

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=10135

Martin provides the answers

[recceboss]

Hello & thanks for the responses.
Unfortunately, the thread referred to does not answer my questions.

It has been established that a warband cannot declare a charge if there is a friendly skirmish screen in front of it. This is because the warband can 'see' through the skirmishers but they are considered to block LoS so you cannot shoot through it, or indeed declare a charge, because of this.

Ok, I'm up to speed with that bit but 'declaring a charge' is a voluntary action & 'warband surge' is a compulsory action'.

This still doesn't answer what is meant by 'they will push through friendly skirmishers' in warband rule 1, hence my questions.
If not to 'surge' forward, then under what circumstances will a warband 'push through' the skirmishers?
And then what are the consequences for the skirmishers? Back to my questions, especially 1 & 3.

The question also arose agian last night. 2 members of a skirmish cavalry unit were clear of the right flank of foot skirmishers to their front, whilst the other 6 members of their unit were behind the foot skirmishers; the cavalry want to declare a charge:
So what happens here?
Do the 2 cavalry figures that have a clear view of the enemy unit charge that enemy unit by themselves with the rest of the unit being left behind the foot skirmishers?
Or does the whole charge fail because the cavalry unit has the foot skirmishers in front of it?
Or are the cavalry unit unable to declare a charge because the foot skirmishers are in their way, regardless of the fact that 2 of the cavalry figures have a clear LoS to the enemy unit?

My apologies if it appears that I'm being pedantic about these questions but they are coming up on a weekly basis for us & it is frustrating not knowing how to deal with the situations in the 'correct' manner.
If I go the tournament in February, it may be embarrasing to try to do something with my warband & get told I can't do it one way, I should be doing it another way......

[fisher40k]

It has been established that a warband cannot declare a charge if there is a friendly skirmish screen in front of it.

I think it has been established you can declare a charge. See linked thread above.

They do not block LoS but do block shooting(I assume because of the chance of hitting your own skirmishers as they run around in front).

This still doesn't answer what is meant by 'they will push through friendly skirmishers' in warband rule 1, hence my questions.

Generally I think the rule means they literally charge through them - assuming there is space in front then they move from one side of the skirmisher unit to the other side leaving the skirmishers unaffected.

If there are skirmisher models who would end up under the chargers then they are moved the minimum distance to the side or behind the chargers - but still maintaining unit coherency. They can then move and shoot as normal, when they get to move.

The question also arose agian last night. 2 members of a skirmish cavalry unit were clear of the right flank of foot skirmishers to their front, whilst the other 6 members of their unit were behind the foot skirmishers; the cavalry want to declare a charge:
So what happens here?
Do the 2 cavalry figures that have a clear view of the enemy unit charge that enemy unit by themselves with the rest of the unit being left behind the foot skirmishers?
Or does the whole charge fail because the cavalry unit has the foot skirmishers in front of it?
Or are the cavalry unit unable to declare a charge because the foot skirmishers are in their way, regardless of the fact that 2 of the cavalry figures have a clear LoS to the enemy unit?

This is a different case as it does not involve the warband rule.

However we have already agreed that a charge can be declared because a unit can see through or past skirmishers. So it is really how the charge occurs.

For a formed unit - unless the skirmishers have moved away before the charge phase then it is a failed charge - pure and simple, but if the skirmishers have moved away all is fine (only two case where this might happen - if the skirmishers are fleeing or if they too charge and are moved first).

If however the unit charging is skirmishers as in this example then generally I would suggest you just move those that can move directly around the skirmishers in to contact and bring the rest round in a free form move. I know the rules say directly and this is generally a straight line - but with an obstacle then I think it is fair to just go round.

[recceboss]

Thanks for the replies & apologies for the delay in replying - 'real-life' stuff getting in the way!
With the replies & having managed to borrow a rulebook again [guess what's top of my Santa wish list?] I think I've managed to work out the answers to my questions.

Warband rule 1 'surge forward' over-rides the rule on p77 about friendly units not being able to charge through a unit of friendly skirmishers unless the skirmishers also declare a charge & move out of the way first.
p113 also says what to do with the skirmishers being charged/moved over/through by the surging warband.

RE my question about the skirmish cavalry charging through another friendly skirmish unit. RAW indicates that although the 2 outer cavalry figures don't have any friendly skirmishers between them & the enemy they want to charge, the charge will fail as soon as the cavalry riders reach the back of the skirmish screen - correct? or....
If the 2 on the flank move directly forwards & contact the enemy, the others pivot and then move straight forward past the flank of the skirmish screen, they will be outwith 2" of the 2 making contact with the enemy, so as above, the charge will fail because they cannot maintain 'skirmish order' - correct?

Many thanks again for all of your patience & help in answering what may seem 'obvious' or 'daft' questions.
cheers
Dave