Advice on Early Saxons

[ulfhednar101]

Hi to you all, i am in the process of building an Early Saxon 2k Army for AoA and was wondering about unit sizes and configuration of the units.

I plan to use the Early Anglo Saxon list to make use of the buckler re roll rule (anyone who saw me play in the recent HYW at WHW can testify that i roll a hell of a lot of 1's when rolling to hit!!!! )

So i am going to be all light infantry. My first thoughts were units of 24 for Gedriht and Duguth in 3 ranks of 8 but i feel this could be a little wide, might struggle to get through gaps, use a lot of move when wheeling etc.

So now i am thinking along the lines of 24 figures, 3 ranks of 7 and 3 spare at the back for casualty removals or lapping around.............................ok probably casualty removals!!!

I would be interested to hear from other Early Saxon players, how they configure their units.

Thanks

[Goltron]

8 wide is in general no problem with B5. As you have in AoArt much enemies with low armour saves the additional attacks can be even better than the additional rank with "heavy" infantry.

[James Morris]

I have a variety of Early Saxon units based on trays 6x4, 7x4 and 8x4. Gedriht often fight 6x3 or 8x3 as their killing power is more important that their ranks. Either 7x3 or 8x3 will work well. Also, when WAB 2 appears, I believe that units will be able to be deployed wider and with only 3 ranks without losing their rank bonus.

[allen.ness]

Absolutely go wide, especially if you are playing any of the AoA campaigns/scenarios. Many of the sceanrios have a river and the AoA river rules are different than the main rule book. Its very handy to stand at a river's edge and clear it with javelin fire before trudging across.

Allen

[Justin]

OK I will chip in, lets say that we would not go smaller than 16's so that it takes at least 5 kills to cause a panic check. How about 18's, 3 ranks of 5 and 3 spare in the back. More smaller units allow you to get more leaders (+1 attack for each one), more musicians and open up more routes of attack (from flanks as well as frontally).

So would 3 units of 18 be better than 2 units of 24?

[Matt-J2]

I've been running my Gedriht 6x3, and Duguth 6x4. I need the static res more with them against some of my opponents, out of period, so even thought it's only +2 for ranks I can keep it longer. Especially with no save vs missiles. The Gedriht have performed wonderfully, though I have considered bumping them to 7x3.

[allen.ness]

Perhaps others can learn from my foibles.

I was playing the Basra's Ford scenario. I had frst turn. My units were big enough to absorb the javelin hits through the game and not have to take a panic tect. At the end of my fifth turn, I had five units across the river - a major vicrtory was in my easy grasp. My buddy beats the unit with the army general and runs it down. Every unit of mine has to test, and wouldn't you know it, everybody fails and runs back across the river. At the top of turn six, all I could do was rally my units (which they all did) and stare at him from the wrong side of the river with a major loss. I easily snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. I'm still laughing about it.

Perhaps my lesson (putting the general at risk in the endgame) doesn't apply to the current thread's ideas, but most shooting in AoA is from javelins. If you are close enough to receive jevelin fire from the enemy, you'll probably be charging next trun. It'd be a shame if you ran from a 25% shooting panic test, especially with early Saxons.

Allen

[Goltron]

OK I will chip in, lets say that we would not go smaller than 16's so that it takes at least 5 kills to cause a panic check. How about 18's, 3 ranks of 5 and 3 spare in the back. More smaller units allow you to get more leaders (+1 attack for each one), more musicians and open up more routes of attack (from flanks as well as frontally).

So would 3 units of 18 be better than 2 units of 24?

You have also the problem that you need to get more units into the same combat, so i think the benefit of more leaders etc. is a bit to theoretical. The main advantage is having more units for flank attacks and building traps but the main disadvantage that this units are vulnerable to charges and missile fire (not only due to panic checks, but also loosing ranks). I prefer always a mixed deplyoment, say two units of 25 (some less for elite units) for the main battleline and two units of about 15-20 for the flanks and "special operations". I like using the gedright mounted as it provides you with a good cavalry unit (especially with mounted raider), as infantry they are a real line breaker but i´m a bit in fear of to much missile fire causualties.

[Keith T]

Hi I am also building an aoa saxon army, are the skirmishers any use and how big a unit would you take?
I have gone for 4 units of Duguth with 24 figures in each and 9 mounted Gedriht so far.I am putting the aetheling with the mounted unit and the king and a army standard at the back of the infantry .
Your thoughts please.
Keith

[Justin]

You have also the problem that you need to get more units into the same combat,

That is indeed the case, hence the extra musicians mentioned.

[Goltron]

Hi I am also building an aoa saxon army, are the skirmishers any use and how big a unit would you take?
I have gone for 4 units of Duguth with 24 figures in each and 9 mounted Gedriht so far.I am putting the aetheling with the mounted unit and the king and a army standard at the back of the infantry .
Your thoughts please.
Keith

The skirmishers are generic low class skirmishers, but they have M5 and cost only 4 pts. I take always 2-3 units of 10 as they are great to handicap the movement of the enemie and javelins are good weapons for them. One or two units with slings might be also usefull. They look weak compared with most light infantry units, but you should notice that they are not subject to warband rule 2 what´s a big disadvantage when you want to skirmish around, throw javelins and stand in the charge way of an enemie unit.

Your army look fine to me. If you have the option give the aetheling the mounted raider character advantage. Loyality is nice for a king on foot.

[francis]

a big unit with slings is very useful biven the low saves that AOA opponents have.

[Goltron]

And the high points costs of the elite units . I had one game (one of the river crossing scenarios) were my opponent wanted to rush over the ford with a big unit of his pict bodyguard, but my own teulu managed to keep him at bay while my slinger shot him down (even though T4 - my spartans have made also some bad experience with slingers!).

However, i think big units don´t work very good as line of sight is restricted. In my experience no more than 10 guys per unit are able to shoot (if you leave a resonable gap, as it should be!). More can be usefull to make the unit more panic resistent, but are imho not neccessary.

[Keith T]

Hi
Thanks for the info, I think I will add 10 slingers and 10 javelins to begin with.
cheers
Keith

[ulfhednar101]

Thanks for the replies so far, some interesting suggestions there. I will never be playing out of period with this army so thats one less thing to worry about. I have come up with my first draft of the army list, something along the following lines.

General
ASB
22 Gedriht (8x3)

3 units of Thegn +23 Duguth (8x3)

Thegn
10 mounted Duguth.

2x15 Geoguth.

Just a rough draft, no doubt it will evolve.

thanks